Original Post By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/4/2008 10:01:01 AM Time for my yearly question. Is a decent lightweight geared straight-shaft ukulele tuner available yet? I'm talking about geared tuners that look like friction tuners. Not Pegheads. Posted By: schwartz Date: 5/4/2008 10:29:21 AM Seems like it's possible. I mean if they can make pegheds look like violin tuners, it's just a question of cosmetics at that point. Posted By: schwartz Date: 5/4/2008 10:30:33 AM Oh I just found this: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh Posted By: Craig Date: 5/4/2008 10:34:53 AM What about banjo tuners? I had them on the DaSilva I used to own and they worked great. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/4/2008 10:47:17 AM   (Updated: 5/4/2008 10:48:05 AM) Craig, Didn't the banjo tuners make the headstock top-heavy because of their size and weight? On my Talsma Tenor I have Gotoh deluxe friction tuners. These work fine when I am at home or in a casual jam session, then I have the luxury of time. But on-stage if I need to fine tune the uke quickly between songs... friction tuners leave much to be desired. Posted By: Neal Date: 5/4/2008 11:20:23 AM I've been Rickrolled! Posted By: turtleuke Date: 5/4/2008 11:28:06 AM Geez swartzie - so early in the day?! Now I am stuck with that in my head as a brain worm. Have to find something strong enough to kill it - maybe a little Formby - that oughta do it. Posted By: old smelly bob Date: 5/4/2008 11:40:53 AM the 5-star dulcimer tuners are smaller than banjo tuners, but still are in the same weight class as the gotohs. PegHeds are the best yet, but if you want looks over function, just take the extra time to fine tune.... Posted By: duane Date: 5/4/2008 11:50:39 AM There does not seem to be a straight through geared peg in a smaller size. I have used 5 Star Planet tuners made for dulcimers. The only difference between these and banjo tuners are the dulcimers tuners require a peg head thickness of no more than 5/16", where as banjo tuners go from 1/2" to 5/8". The dulcimer tuners weigh only slightly less, but weigh is also saved with the thinner headstock. They work great on tenor and baritone ukes but are a little heavy for a concert. I do use them on concerts ukes but I wish there were an alternative on the market. Pegheds are the only other geared tuner available as far as I know. I think the ideal geared peg would be one the size and look of the Grovers or Gotoh friction peg. They could be used on any size uke, old or new. In the past I did talk to several makers of geared pegs about this and they all said the same thing. They didn't believe there was a big enough market and the start up cost would be high. I believe if they had done these pegs 8 or 9 years ago, they would be industry standard and they would be making lots of money by now. It is still not too late. Anybody? Posted By: John Kavanagh Date: 5/4/2008 12:20:22 PM   (Updated: 5/4/2008 9:25:40 PM) I ordered Grover planetarys for my baritenor, but when the arrived and I saw how bulky they were I swapped them for Waverlys instead, which are a little smaller and have smaller buttons. You might get the Grover dulcimer tuners and swap the buttons; I think it says in the Stew-Mac catalogue that the buttons are interchangeable, and sold separately. I agree with duane, though - if somebody had started making a small, light planetary a few years back they'd be standard now and they'd be making money. I bet some old-time banjo players would be buying them, too. I'm getting Pegheds on my new uke. I'm trying to fit my new uke into every conversation. Did I mention I'm getting a new uke? with pegheds, five of them. Posted By: Zathras Date: 5/4/2008 12:31:45 PM Wow thats the first RR I've seen on a uke board - it is getting widespread now :) I have played a tenor with the banjo style and I didn't notice the top being heavier, but I didn't have much time with it. Posted By: musicguymic Date: 5/4/2008 7:39:55 PM Tuner in the Grover style or goth friction pegs can be made as Duane greatly sugggested...Only problem is manufactures want a minimum of a quadrillion to make it for you. Especially at the low markup and prices it would sell for. Their mentality is why tool up to make an item that makes you 1.00 per unit when you can use the same cost tooling to make something that produces 30.00 per unit. Posted By: John Mayes Date: 5/4/2008 8:13:58 PM Damn. Rickrolled. Well Played. Posted By: earnest Date: 5/4/2008 10:16:54 PM I prefer the grover friction tuners over the gotohs. They're smooth, positive, and don't slip. The gotohs look sorta good but I don't think they work as well. There's nothing out there like the peghed that looks like a friction tuner. I think that banjo tuners are too heavy. The only other current option is open backed geared guitar or uke tuners. Get over it, Gerald, and live with friction tuners. eck Posted By: schwartz Date: 5/4/2008 11:35:40 PM Rickroll aside, if you want the look of uke tuners, why not just buy uke tuners? Are they really that hard for people to use? Perhaps you should try wearing your geared hands. Posted By: Bruce E Date: 5/5/2008 7:56:09 AM Quote Gerald: "Didn't the banjo tuners make the headstock top-heavy because of their size and weight?" Gerald, you use a strap. Until you start developing shoulder problems, why do you care how much they weigh? (biggest smiley I can find, buddy) Just to weigh in (pun highly intended) an alternate opinion, to some people a few extra grams of weight on the head stock is completely irrelevant. I have a couple ukes with miniature planetary banjo tuners and the only effect I notice is how much easier they are to tune. I won't trouble the thread further with my reactionary thoughts. Unless... Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/5/2008 9:00:44 AM Bruce, Care to enlighten us as to the brand of miniature planetary banjo tuners you are talking about? Posted By: Aaron Keim Date: 5/5/2008 9:38:37 AM I use Gotoh planetary banjo tuners on my Beansprouts. They are smaller and lighter than 5 stars and work much better. Obviously, they are not too heavy for a banjo uke. Posted By: duane Date: 5/5/2008 9:56:09 AM Aaron, are they lighter in weight than the 5 Star dulcimer tuners? What do the weight and what is the head thickness required? Thanks. Posted By: Billbo66 Date: 5/5/2008 10:40:48 AM I was searching around and found a peghead-like Gotoh. May be an interesting option. I have no idea about the vendor. [link]http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/Pages/gotoh_catalog2007/gg2007_18.html[link] Posted By: LoMa Date: 5/5/2008 11:11:05 AM   (Updated: 5/5/2008 11:11:32 AM) The Gotoh pegs are 1:1 non-geared pegs. They're marketed as being easier to install because a tapered peghole is not required and they're supposed to work more smoothly than wood pegs because thet don;t shrink and swell with humidity changes. Pegheds are a better option if you're looking for a violin-like geared peg. Pegheds have the same gear ratio (4:1) as most banjo planetary's. Posted By: Bruce E Date: 5/5/2008 5:33:21 PM I got them from Elderly. They are from Germany and the order is usually sold out before it arrives. I can't find them on the website anymore. Here is a picture. http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/tocotodo/DSCF0977.jpg Posted By: scrooner Date: 5/5/2008 6:47:46 PM http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/Pages/gotoh_catalog2007/gg2007_18.html Posted By: duane Date: 5/5/2008 9:17:34 PM Scrooner, I have seen these pegs in many school violins. Most of the teachers hate them. They wear out and are they are hard to adjust. They would not work at all for a uke because they require two supporting surfaces like a violin peg box. They are nothing like a Peghed tuner. Posted By: Dave Means Date: 5/5/2008 11:14:42 PM I used some unbranded banjo-type planetaries on a few ukes (I got them from Rijk Sauer). They were definitely lighter (but no smaller) than the 5-Stars, but my impression was that they were of substantially lower quality... so I didn't buy any more. -- Dave Posted By: mLKauai Date: 5/5/2008 11:25:43 PM rickroll? what the eff? first timer here.. what does it mean anyway? fwiw, now we know why the old old mostly practicaly live Hawaiian uke music is so "unique"... ergo out of tune. learn to love top heavy; it can be an easily aquired taste; ergo; wow; love the sound being in tune is.... Posted By: duane Date: 5/5/2008 11:46:52 PM You absolutely correct Dave about the unbranded planet type. I had a set of these and they were made poorly in my opinion. Posted By: scrooner Date: 5/6/2008 12:29:07 AM To clarify: I know nothing about those pegs I provided a link for. Just wanted to fix a link posted by Bilbo66. Posted By: PHMike Date: 5/6/2008 9:09:49 AM   (Updated: 5/6/2008 9:10:28 AM) Rickroll definition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll ps, this is a link to a Wikipedia article - not to another rickroll. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/6/2008 10:42:10 AM   (Updated: 5/6/2008 10:43:27 AM) So what's the final verdict? Grover friction are better than Gotoh friction? Bruce E's unbranded planetary's are so-so? The Five Star planetary's are the same size as the unbranded but cost a lot more? Or just - suck it up and live in the friction peg world? Posted By: Aaron Keim Date: 5/6/2008 10:42:46 AM Duane- They are 40 grams per tuner. you can get them at http://www.windystrings.com/tuners.htm It seems you will need almost a 1/2 inch headstock, which is pretty beefy for a concert. Aaron Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/6/2008 10:52:29 AM Anyone have a weight on a Gotoh Deluxe Friction tuner? Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/6/2008 9:38:34 PM   (Updated: 5/6/2008 9:40:17 PM) Ok... I took a Gotoh Deluxe tuner off of my Bushman Jenny and weighed it. Yes, two years ago right after I got the Jenny I upgraded the tuners to Gothohs and also had a new Corian nut made for it with wider string spacing The single tuner weighed between 4 and 6 grams using a food scale (different weights each time I tried). 40 grams a tuner for the planetarys Aaron? Are you sure? 28 grams is an ounce. Almost 1.4 ounces per tuner? Posted By: Billbo66 Date: 5/6/2008 10:13:45 PM For reference, I robbed the following info from Wiki. If a nickle weighs 5 grams, those Gotoh Deluxes are pretty light. * Plastic pen cap (Bic): 1 gram * A single Smartie: 1 gram * Paper clip: 0.5 grams to 1.5 grams * 1 US banknote (any denomination): 1 gram[2] * 1 litre of air: 1.2 grams * A teaspoon of salt: 4.745 grams * Typical sheet of A4 paper: 5 grams (if 80g/m²) * United States nickel: 5 grams (very accurate when new)[3] Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/7/2008 12:27:36 AM Maybe my scale needs a new battery. Posted By: ed w Date: 5/7/2008 9:13:56 AM I have to say that I love the function and lightness of the Pegheds. Posted By: scrooner Date: 5/7/2008 10:39:14 AM You ought to, for the price. Posted By: ed w Date: 5/7/2008 11:47:36 AM As they say, "you get what you pay for" :-) Posted By: John Kavanagh Date: 5/7/2008 3:45:59 PM   (Updated: 5/7/2008 3:49:43 PM) Gerald - is the problem with Pegheds the general look, the way they work, or do you just not like paying $100 for something that looks, at first glance, like cheap plastic fiddle pegs? I wish they'd offer wood buttons, at least. There's probably better-looking plastics; epoxy with ebony dust, or carbon fibre composite, or something. (For all I know, they are carbon fibre.) I like that they're 4:1 and light - it's hard to hold a uke at the angle I like if it's top-heavy. Banjo planetaries would be too bulky and heavy, especially with five, on a tenor body (four is OK on a baritone). If somebody made what you're describing, I'd want that. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/7/2008 4:18:39 PM John, My Talsma Tenor Uke is very Art-Deco looking. http://davetalsma.com/Gallery32.htm Pegheads would look out of place on it. The $100 doesn't bother me. I'd gladly pay $100 for small lightweight metal planetary's for this uke. I'm going to have this uke for awhile. Have you ever seen a Talsma uke put up for sale by the original owner? I haven't. Posted By: ed w Date: 5/7/2008 5:57:13 PM " Have you ever seen a Talsma uke put up for sale by the original owner? I haven't." By coincidence, check the FMM marketplace. There is one currently for sale. Posted By: DougD Date: 5/7/2008 6:36:48 PM John K, I think they do offer wood buttons for Pegheds, but the rest of the peg is made of the same materials. Posted By: Dave in Petaluma Date: 5/7/2008 7:16:37 PM This thread spured me to digging through my clutch of old tuners. I came up with 2 open geared (worm drive) Three post tuner that the midle post had beeen removed. these are 1/2 X 2 3/4 and 1 13/16 post center to center. Now rotate them 90 with the posts sideways in a slot and the tuners on the back side of the head. No more ears and a very light weight. I will at the next oportunity make a test bed for this on an old neck that is beyond use. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/7/2008 7:28:04 PM Picture please Dave. Posted By: duane Date: 5/7/2008 9:24:50 PM I have used 5 Star Planet brand geared dulcimer tuners on concert, tenor and baritone ukes for years. They work fine and are not too heavy. Banjo tuners are heavier because they have more metal in them and they require a thicker head stock. The Pegheds would work Ok for some ukes, but certainly not every uke. They have an older look which just would not work for some designs in my opinion. Posted By: John Kavanagh Date: 5/8/2008 1:00:21 PM   (Updated: 5/8/2008 1:01:31 PM) I see what you mean. Small gold-plated planetaries would be just right for that design. It's hard when oyu can't see them ahead of time - the dulcimer ones might be just fine, or they might not. As I said, I ordered the 5-stars and immediately returned them - they just wouldn't have looked right. You can get Waverlys (waht I have) in gold, and they might be OK. Do you want some measurements? Are you close enough to Elderly that you can go in and look at them? I wonder if the Peghed guy could put his machinery in a different housing? It might be worth asking him. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 5/8/2008 1:05:00 PM Dave Talsma is already working on some ideas with me to replace the tuners. Luckily Dave only lives about 40 miles away from me and Elderly is only 60 miles. Posted By: Dave Means Date: 5/8/2008 1:23:59 PM John, I had fairly extensive discussions with John Charles Herrin (the inventor of Pegheds) a few years ago when I first researched their application to ukes. I was the first one to use them on ukes. As John is the principal cellist with the Charlotte symphony, his impetus was, of course, a better peg for violin-family instruments. He had expanded their application to flamenco guitars, and I approached him about uke applications. One major reason Pegheds can be made so much more compact and lightweight than traditional banjo/dulcimer planetaries is because part of the gear train (the outer ring gear) is integral to the housing... there is no separate housing for the gears as on traditional planetaries. The tapered shank that screws into the headstock has the ring gear machined into its internal surface (it is black anodized aluminum, I believe). Pegheds could, of course, be redesigned for more of a contemporary uke-peg look, but it would have to be a complete redesign and retooling that I doubt if the sales volume would justify as yet. -- Dave Posted By: PHMike Date: 5/8/2008 3:43:11 PM   (Updated: 5/8/2008 3:47:26 PM) Gerald - Do a Google search for "pancake banjo tuners" or something similar. The pancake style tuners I've seen on old banjos have thin stamped housings instead of thick machined bodies and look to be just a bit lighter than what folks normally think of when thinking banjo tuners. The downside is the body is a bit larger in diameter. This site has some interesting versions - http://gregboyd.com/accessories.html?family=Banjos Posted By: Flyin' Brian Date: 5/8/2008 5:07:59 PM   (Updated: 5/15/2008 9:15:18 AM) *

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