Bulletin Board: Late Night After NY Uke Fest Party

Original Post By: Ted Gottfried Date: 4/16/2007 4:59:26 PM Ukulele Rejects Friday 27th April, 11pm - 1am. Julius’ Bar 159 W. 10 St and Waverly West Village, New York http://www.ukulelecabaret.com/rejects Ukulele Cabaret returns to Julius’ for a special 2-year anniversary show. WARNING: this is not your father's ukulele. This show features ukulele rejects - those too controversial for mainstream ukulele audiences. Sonic Uke: crossdressing ukulele freaks - boas to grass skirts in a single song Mary Martin: outermost ukulele player from Provincetown, MA D'yan Forest: incorrect lesbian sings about senior sex Andru Cann: "Kiss me in a place where the sun don't shine" Tom Harker: the secret police have dossiers on this rabble-rouser Tim Pioppo: "we're 90% sure this song is about masturbation” Gio Gaynor: suits and eyeliner, heavy metal uke and special guests too hot to mention … Posted By: SW Date: 4/16/2007 5:12:04 PM Great idea, Ted, and I wish I were gonna be in town but won't be back til Sunday to moderate the meshuguna Cliff Edwards seminar (they need a moderator -- you know how rowdy those Uke Ike seminars can get). Also, thanks for all the postings about the passing of Don Ho. If you hadn't done it I was gonna. I'm surprised there wasn't anything on Ukulelia -- guess Don wasn't dark, spooky or creepy enough for their taste! Posted By: Patsy Date: 4/16/2007 5:28:12 PM I'll be there to hoot n holler. Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/17/2007 10:06:20 AM " I'm surprised there wasn't anything on Ukulelia -- guess Don wasn't dark, spooky or creepy enough for their taste!" Hey, I resemble that remark ;-) In all seriousness, I have heard that they try not to duplicate what is reported on the other uke news sites or blogs. Of course that doesn't explain Vonnegut vs. Ho, or maybe it does. Posted By: Craig Robertson Date: 4/17/2007 10:48:58 AM Actually, Don Ho was TOO dark and creepy for my tastes. His stage persona had nothing to do with what he did in his personal life. and Ukulelia (according to Mark and Gary)is a "family" site. Adams Family. Posted By: Uncle Rufus Date: 4/17/2007 10:50:53 AM WAAAAAAH! Nobody told me that Kurt Vonnegut had died (until just now, Nancy - thanks). I'll miss him - read most of the books (he signed my Slaughterhouse 5 for me at university in 1981), and loved Breakfast of Champions most, I think. My other half's father used to have a Kurt Vonnegut quotation over his front door. A one-off. So it goes. Posted By: SW Date: 4/17/2007 11:03:51 AM I was only being half-serious, Nancy (which at my age is plenty), but a friend of mine (a tenor uke player who happens to live in my building -- what are the odds?!) were talking the other night how some factions attached to the uke have chosen to take the instrument down a dark, creepy path, away from the bright, happy persona the little thing used to have. We were just laughing at the bleak connection to the uke -- "noir" imagery, players with the word "blood" in their names and the like. There's always been an "underbelly," for lack of a better word, faction attached to everything musical and otherwise, but it's usually a reflection of the mood and tone of the player not the instrument. Just thought it was a little comically incongruous (which may be the whole idea) -- sort of like "piccolo noir." Anyway, was just lamenting the loss of Don Ho and sunlight in general. Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/17/2007 11:33:58 AM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 11:39:44 AM) I know, Spats, I was just teasing because I'd been in there recently. But actually I love the noir stuff just as much as I do the bright music. Those dissonant chords, the provocative lyrics. It's why I love Double Indemnity as much as The Thin Man and Blue Hawaii. I am nothing if not eclectic, I guess. And Rufus, yeah...sad. Vonnegut was a big part of my formative years as well. My first real boyfriend bought me Slaughterhouse 5 as a gift when I was a junior in high school. I had only superficial knowledge of Don Ho as a person, and knew him musically from TV specials and so on. I personally tend to prefer the older '20s and '30s acoustic Hawaiian music of people like King Benny Nawahi and Sol Hoopii (and I love contemporary slack key as well), but I can respect Don Ho as a Hawaiian musical icon that many loved. Posted By: SW Date: 4/17/2007 11:54:23 AM I love Double Indemnity, too -- how could you not, it stars Robbie, Chip and Ernie's dad! I agree, Nancy. Just thought it a bit oxymoronic especially after reading many remarks here and elsewhere about the irreparable damage heaped upon the uke by Tiny Tim and his creepiness. The ukulele had lost it's bid for serious musical positioning long before Tiny came along thanks to flappers, canoes, bathtub gin, the hula and that "anyone can play one" mentality. At least Tiny was cheerful. I didn't mean to go on a rampage, I was just getting annoyed in my usual curmudgeonly way with the dark shrouded, matte black-painted, east village, anti-Xmas, anti-happy, anti-anti thing. Just thought it was a little old hat (no personal pun intended). After all, Fred MacMurray, Eddie Robinson and Barbara Stanwyck were acting -- it wasn't their chosen lifestyle. Your oxymoronic friend, Spats Posted By: Ted Gottfried Date: 4/17/2007 12:00:14 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 12:00:48 PM) Spats, I remember when Tiny Tim was BIG. We love Tiny Tim. Ted http://www.sonicuke.com Posted By: SW Date: 4/17/2007 12:04:55 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 12:08:52 PM) Many don't, Ted, including many right here on this bulletin board judging by some other past posts. Not that it matters but they believe he brought ridicule and shame to an instrument that was already ridiculous. He was a nice guy and a smart man and a hardworking fellow just trying to get by like the rest of us. After the rest of us are gone, he'll still be remembered -- for better or for worse. That's show business. Posted By: Ted Gottfried Date: 4/17/2007 12:10:44 PM Tiny Tim is the most well known outsider musician ever. I think his marriage on the Johnny Carson show still holds the record for the most watched TV show ever. Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/17/2007 2:46:25 PM I think we could do a whole thread on Tiny Tim. I am one of the people who believes he brought ridicule and shame to the instrument, because he actually did...to most laypeople. To those of us with any musical, music history or theatrical background, we know of his devotion to early music. We know that he adapted Tiptoe from the amazing Nick Lucas, whose voice he adored. I do think that the general public thought Tiny Tim = Nutjob and these same people equated the ukulele the same way because it was associated with him very closely. To deny this is really kind of crazy, he was presented on TV as a national joke. But by stating this, it is in no way dismissive of who he actually was, it's the unfortunate reality based on public perception. The older associations with hula and Arthur Godfrey were mostly before the Laugh In target audience's time, so for many, the only real point of reference they had about the ukulele was Tiny Tim. I hope you can see the reasoning here and differentiate between my assessment of what the general public thought and any personal opinions I had about the guy and what he did. Posted By: Tin Pan Alley-Cat Date: 4/17/2007 3:06:22 PM Double Indemnity and The Thin Man...Now you're talkin' my lingo...! Posted By: Ted Gottfried Date: 4/17/2007 3:15:54 PM He was a nut. Thats the impression I get from what I have read. Did any one else read Tiny Tim and Mr. Plym? http://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Tim-Mr-Plym-Life/dp/0974688711/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-4182876-3818513?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176836362&sr=1-1 It isn't like he is the only nut that I know who plays the ukulele. I disagree with you that "he brought ridicule and shame to the instrument." Many people are conflicted about Tiny Tim but that is their problem. If I worried what the public thought, I wouldn't be playing the ukulele now. Ted http://www.sonicuke.com Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/17/2007 3:22:35 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 3:29:37 PM) I'm not "worried" about what the public thought, Ted, and I don't have a "problem" or am conflicted in any way. I'm just stating the obvious. He was presented to the public as a joke, and as a result, the ukulele was viewed by a goodly portion of a generation as a joke, as well, by association. No fair shooting the messenger. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 4/17/2007 3:35:22 PM It's not just the uke. Look at the accordion. Everyone thinks Lawrence Welk when you pull one out. Look at the Hawaiian music, especially steel guitar and hula. Play Hawaiian music at the company Christmas party and inevitably the fat guy from Accounts Receivables takes off his shirt and does a drunken hula. Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/17/2007 3:45:23 PM There was a music store in Santa Clara, CA that gave out bumper stickers that said, "Play an Accordion, go to jail." Posted By: SW Date: 4/17/2007 3:58:08 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 4:30:18 PM) Gerald is right. Nancy is right. Wil is right and Ted is right. We're all right. Tim was a nutjob. But one thing you're overlooking is that Tiny didn't make the ukulele ridiculous. He chose the ukulele because it already was ridiculous due to the aforementioned reasons and the mainland perception of the vodeodo roaring twenties, my dog has fleas, paddlin madeline home stigmas. We all know differently and are in awe of Ohta and King and Kavanagh and Jake and the others who have elevated the instrument to the respect level it deserves(?). But please remember that after 30 years of playing the thing professionally, to this very day, I have not shown up at a gig where the reaction to spying the instrument was not one of a giggle. I don't even have to play it. The perception of the uke is one of humor (the accordion, as Gerald pointed out, unfortunately falls under the same scrutiny) and all of the years of work of the above mentioned Ohtas & Kings, etc. have, unfortunately, done nothing to erase that stigma. Their genius is well known but mostly to us. Throughout history, as evidenced in even many of the vintage films I have from the thirties and forties and even tv shows from the fifties, whenever someone is going to sing a song and wants to get a laugh, they whip out a uke and the audience lets out with their giggles and groans. It never fails. And this is all pre-Tiny. To this day, the only way I've been able to get an audience past that prejudice is by singing well and entertaining well and having them almost forget that I'm playing a uke. If I had the talent of Herb or John or Wm. or Jake, maybe I could do it by instrumental playing but I don't possess their skill. Remember, Roy Smeck had done more to trivialize the uke in his flash act throwing instruments around and making goofy faces before Tiny was even a gleam in his parents eye. The very fact that there is a uke society and a fleamarket bb and ukefests and everything else is because of this "retarded cousin" status that the uke inherited long before any of our times. The piano and violin and guitar, etc. have not suffered such foolery. Let's face it. The uke is a funny instrument. I doubt if any other musical instrument bulletin boards include threads on what kind of funny hats people wear while playing. The uke is probably the only instrument that evokes discussion at all. I rarely see a pianist sit down to play and make reference to the brand of instrument he's about to use. Even if you look at old vaudeville/vitaphone footage, the players make jokes about their "little instrument" (Formby's "little ukulele in my hand," etc.). I don't know why this is but all of this discussion is due to the fact that the uke is and always has been a maligned instrument -- ubiquitous, disposable, paddle-able and, in the case of Roy Smeck and Chaz Chase, tossable and edible! It is part of its charm and all of the perfling, binding, neck width, nut width, string tension, etc. isn't going to change that. Let's face it -- we play a funny instrument. Tiny Tim may have been a nutjob but his choice of the uke was a perfect compliment to his nuttiness. Posted By: jeanadriane Date: 4/17/2007 5:49:23 PM Spats, that's a great post. I love to read it. Posted By: Rick Cota Date: 4/17/2007 7:24:23 PM Don't the beat man because he's holding a uke! Herbert Khaury aka Tiny Tim was a successful performer who was nationally recognized. He did what many wanabe singer/musicians did in the 60s, hustled the joints in the Village and everywhere else, probably playing for free to get his foot in the door, and after several difficult years was recognized for his hard work and given a shot at the "big time." I guess he must have done O.K. because he made records and performed on T.V. I remember seeing him on Ironsides years ago and recall that the last time I saw anyone play a ukulele was on one of the last Arthur Godfry shows some time in the 50's. I'm sure someone may have played a ukulele in between that period but I missed it. Was he nut job? If getting to perform nationally requires nut job certification, maybe some of hopeful uke pros on this board ought to put in their papers. Once he got rolling, I believe Tiny Tim had a good career even with it's ups and downs and I'm sure he made a few bucks along the way. He worked until the day he died, and possibly with his ukulele very close by. Did he hurt the ukulele? I doubt it! If you had any theatrical perception, you could see that he had to perfect a persona for his audience, the hook. The last time I heard anything related to Tiny Tim was an NPR interview during the 90s where he discussed his love of turn of the century music and I believe he even sang a couple of songs in his normal voice. He sounded pretty normal and lucid to me and his singing wasn't all that bad either. Don't blame Tiny Tim for hurting the reputation of the ukulele, blame it on the Bossanova Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/17/2007 8:47:02 PM I don't think the ukulele is a "funny" instrument in itself, just like a seltzer bottle isn't funny in itself. It's funny when a clown sprays someone in the face with it but it ain't the bottle that's funny; it's the clown. Tiny Tim was one of the greatest clowns of all time. I've said it before and I'll say it again; I love Tiny Tim. Posted By: No Strings Date: 4/17/2007 10:49:51 PM I agree with Nancy on this one—I have lots of respect for Tiny Tim's love of old music and the fact that he loved the ukulele—and played it well. He loved many of the same songs I like. Unfortunately, he presented himself—or at the very least, came across as—more of a novelty act than a musician. To this day, mention the ukulele to an ordinary person and the ONLY reaction they have is to start singing "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" in a goofy voice. It's not meant as a compliment. And no, they've never heard of Roy Smeck, Ukulele Ike or Arthur Godfrey. Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/17/2007 10:56:02 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 11:32:29 PM) What kind of a reaction would you prefer? If you mention the oboe to an ordinary person, what would they say? What I'm getting at is, who cares what the "ordinary person" thinks? Ordinary people are boring. Posted By: Ted Gottfried Date: 4/17/2007 11:16:22 PM   (Updated: 4/17/2007 11:19:37 PM) You go Arch! "Look at 'em, ordinary fucking people, I hate 'em". -- Harry Dean Stanton, Repo Man. 1984. Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/17/2007 11:28:19 PM Great movie, Ted but I haven't seen it it years. I think I'll rent it this weekend. Posted By: hoaryhead Date: 4/17/2007 11:56:16 PM "You're not a communist, are you? No communists in my car....no Christians, either." Posted By: Jason @ Sonic Uke Date: 4/18/2007 11:59:26 AM Here's another pre-Tiny ukulele comedy clip sent to me by Doug Skinner (a late-addition to this month's Cabaret lineup!). At least the ukulele doesn't get destroyed .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTWN8apuA8 Posted By: allenhopkins Date: 4/18/2007 4:53:08 PM Certain instruments do get associated with foolery, for many reasons. In country or bluegrass music, the bass fiddle player often was the "clown," in baggy pants and a funny hat (even blackface sometimes). Banjo players (Stringbean, Uncle Dave Macon, Grandpa Jones) projected a comic persona. And is there such a thing as a serious kazoo player? But the harp survived Harpo Marx, the piano his brother Chico (and Victor Borge), the banjo the weird inbred Appalachian boy in "Deliverance" -- and the ukulele is more than a "cute, funny little instrument." As for Tiny Tim, he was intelligent enough to figure out a way to show biz success, and even national notoriety. How much of his crazy image was natural, and how much calculated, is a question about which we can speculate. Mr. Khaury is long in his grave, we are still playing the ukulele, and the future "image" of the uke may well be what WE make it. Posted By: Pete Howlett Date: 4/18/2007 5:19:10 PM I like the way the ukulele makes people smile. If Tim was a freak show then so what - we should be greatful that he played the uke and exposed the public to this smile making instrument. I don't personally think I have ever been ridiculed or my uke for that matter when I have produced it in the middle of a blues set and played Washington Phillips's 'I Am Born To Preach The Gospel' followed by RJs 'Hot Tamales'... Posted By: Pete Howlett Date: 4/18/2007 5:37:13 PM Just watch the Keaton clip - the uke, a Style 3 does come to a sticky end Jason... How much were they in Keaton's day? $25. Maybe it was like that famous Groucho Marks clip where he appears to ditch his Gibson L5 into the lake? Posted By: DougD Date: 4/18/2007 6:15:00 PM   (Updated: 4/18/2007 6:40:55 PM) What Pete, you don't have a dulceola? Allen - Supposedly Uncle Dave once said to Earl Scruggs - "You're a good banjo player, but you're not a bit funny." And Arch, if you mention an oboe to most people they'll probably think of MoZart or maybe Telemann, except for me, who'll think of Sue Chertoff, the lovely oboist in our interelementary orchestra long years ago. What a pleasure it was then to play the bassoon. Posted By: SW Date: 4/18/2007 8:27:29 PM Tiny would've turned 75 last Thursday. Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/18/2007 9:42:04 PM Sue Chertoff sounds like an interesting person, Doug. I had a crush on the first violinist in the orchestra during a high school music camp. I was devastated to discover that fiddlers usually pair up with other fiddlers and I was a mere cellist. On the rebound, I hooked up with her sister, also a cellist, but that's a very tricky combination. Plus, she was crazy. This morning, I asked a lady on the bus what she knew about oboes and she looked at me as if *I* was crazy. Posted By: SW Date: 4/18/2007 11:30:18 PM Hmmm. Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/19/2007 12:02:33 AM Hmmmm? Posted By: musicguymic Date: 4/19/2007 12:59:31 AM Well Arch I would think the ladies would give you dirty looks if you keep harassing them about their old boyfriends. Posted By: Arch Larizza Date: 4/19/2007 1:08:34 AM Wha? Oh. I get it. Old beaus. See ya next week, Mike, you rascal, you! Posted By: Patsy Date: 4/19/2007 10:19:21 AM Gloria Mendelson and I played oboe together in our jr. high school music class. She told me that she was a descendant of Felix, with an "sh", and I believed her. Now THERE was an oboe player. Posted By: Gerald Ross Date: 4/19/2007 10:20:10 AM   (Updated: 4/19/2007 11:11:40 AM) Pete Howlett writes: "Maybe it was like that famous Groucho Marks clip where he appears to ditch his Gibson L5 into the lake? " Watch the clip closely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tqnck4SRD4 At the 1:57 point you can see that they switched the L5 for a cheaper guitar. The cheaper guitar does not have the characteristic L5 elevated pickguard and it looks like it has a round hole. Groucho is holding the guitar face-up so you have to look closely. Posted By: SW Date: 4/19/2007 10:28:33 AM The Gibson was probably Groucho's own. He was a pretty good player and I have other photos of him over the years playing the same guitar. Whenever I would call him during the years I knew him he'd always get on the phone and say he was just busy practicing. He had a whole booklet of Gilbert & Sullivan songs he'd personally arranged for the guitar. Posted By: Patsy Date: 4/19/2007 10:36:38 AM Wow, Gerald...great catch. That is definitely a cheaper, round-hole guitar Groucho tosses. No Gibsons in the drink on that set. Too bad Groucho doesn't play a 5K in that clip. What would he have switched it for? One of his old old cigar boxes? Funny and silly as Harpo was, he was dead-serious whan he sat down at the harp, and, of course, he was among the most accomplished harpists of the day. Posted By: Doug Skinner Date: 4/21/2007 10:33:46 AM Maybe the best solution is to put out so much uke music that nobody has just one association with it. Keaton, by the way, was pretty good on the uke. There are some nice clips of him just playing at home. Posted By: Jason @ Sonic Uke Date: 4/21/2007 1:03:29 PM Doug, Amazing ! Here's the clip of Keaton at home http://youtube.com/watch?v=mlh9g2876-Y from a Nation Film Board of Canada documentary. Jason Posted By: northern uke Date: 4/21/2007 9:11:29 PM That clip and others, are in a great behind the scenes film about the making of Busters Canadian classic. Every Canuck has grown up seeing that film.The interviews and uke playing were done in Busters private rail car he had as his rolling trailer for the shoot. Posted By: Peanut Date: 4/21/2007 11:53:40 PM I don't think that Tiny Tim's impact is all that lasting. I'm 32 and I'm only vaguely aware of him, I can picture him and I've heard his version of "Tip Toe," but that's about it. A generation from now, I think he'll be hopelessly obscure if he isn't already. That being said. There will always be something plaintive and silly about the ukulele, that's what I like about it. I like music that embodies contradiction, like sad music you can dance to (klezmer). Posted By: Jason @ Sonic Uke Date: 4/25/2007 10:10:21 AM Well - if you ever had any doubts about the uke's versatility as a novelty instrument ..... check out Hot Time Harv's latest videos on Midnight Ukulele Disco http://www.ukuleledisco.com/ Posted By: Jason @ Sonic Uke Date: 4/25/2007 10:11:20 AM Oh - a quick warning ... these videos are not for the faint of heart ! Complete episode to follow shortly. Posted By: ed w Date: 4/25/2007 11:28:04 AM While many may know and respect Tiny Tim for his ability and knowledge, the general public often thought of him as a buffoon, like it or not. There are many performers that often have a different persona among those who know their true talents or skills. If you only knew Louis Armstrong mugging for the camera on variety shows in the sixties or in films like High Society, you would never have an idea of the genius of his Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings generations earlier. Many would hear the name Mitch Miller and only think of "Sing along with Mitch". Few know of his career as a fine oboist, and of his brilliance as an A and R man running Columbia Records. Often we only see the small piece of the iceberg that is above the surface. Posted By: Jason @ Sonic Uke Date: 4/26/2007 2:25:49 AM The whole episode is up now... plus this little extra from the 'afterparty' later that night on the stoop. http://www.ukuleledisco.com/granoelvis Posted By: NinaC Date: 4/26/2007 7:34:40 AM Well said, ed w.

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