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Original Post By:
Christie
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Date: 2/2/2010 4:56:15 PM |
I never could understand all the controversy regarding friction vs. geared tuners--until I got my concert uke. It has grover 4b tuners which I have lubed and which have their set screws set as loose as possible to hold. It is a beast to tune compared to any of our sopranos.
So I am wondering if most of the folks who prefer geared tuners also play the larger sized ukes. Just curious.
I am drooling over a set of Pegheds but arranging the upgrade is a logistical nightmare from where I am.
Anyone have any interim solutions/ideas?
Thanks.
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Posted By:
rbeetsme
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Date: 2/2/2010 5:02:04 PM |
| Play the sopranos. I have some really nice mini-geared Gotoh tuners, smooth as silk on a concert. Kind of pricey but the best.
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Posted By:
Walter in Austin
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Date: 2/2/2010 7:37:51 PM
(Updated: 2/2/2010 7:39:05 PM)
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I own a concert-size banjo-uke with Pegheds and they're great. I recommend them. For me, they make tuning (& staying in tune) a lot easier.
I also own a Fender tenor with geared tuners--very nice indeed. It stays in tune for weeks without my having to retune.
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Posted By:
TwoLegPete
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Date: 2/3/2010 8:03:50 AM |
| I mainly play sopranos, but I have friction tuners on my concert, too - works very well. I prefer Gotoh Deluxe friction tuners, they hold the tuning perfectly, they run smooth like butter and minute adjustments of pitch are a piece of cake...
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Posted By:
BrianT
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Date: 2/3/2010 1:00:08 PM |
| Why not tighten the adjustment screw a little? You could try a lower tension string. I was told the Martin flourocarbon strings use less tension.
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Posted By:
coconino
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Date: 2/3/2010 1:02:57 PM |
| It's not the gears that I don't like, it's the EARS! Pegheds offer gears without ears.
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Posted By:
TRS uke
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Date: 2/3/2010 3:44:33 PM |
| I'm with Coconino on this. All my Soprano and concert ukes have friction tuners. They all hold well, even the cheap ones, except for during temperature changes. Then simply retuning does the trick. I might run mine a bit on the tightish side, but not so tight as being difficult to turn. I have even pulled geared tuners off and replaced them with friction, but thats just me. Pegheds seem like the perfect solution for someone who doesn't like friction.
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Posted By:
Ukester Brown
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Date: 2/3/2010 9:44:35 PM |
| I too agree with coconino. I have pegheds on my Josephine Kepasa, but rarely use the fine tune gearing. I had them put on mostly to look "old school" with the look I was going for. Esthetically I don't like ears on a little uke for some reason.
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Posted By:
duane
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Date: 2/3/2010 10:02:48 PM |
| I personally wish the ukulele Pegheds looked like old style wooden uke pegs, in rosewood or koa. The black violin peg look just doesn't do it for me.
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Posted By:
pukulele pete
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Date: 2/4/2010 6:32:55 AM
(Updated: 2/4/2010 6:36:46 AM)
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You don't want the screws "as loose as possible"
The screws should be tight but not too tight. I've never heard of lubing the tuners.They should not be lubed. In my opinion geard tuners do not belong on a soprano or concert size uke.
Friction tuners that are not lubed and have the screw tight work just fine.
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Posted By:
TRS uke
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Date: 2/4/2010 8:32:31 AM |
| Maybe Pegheds new slogan should be, "Gears, not Ears"!
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Posted By:
coconino
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Date: 2/4/2010 11:04:17 AM |
I've said "gears without ears" on this board two or three times now - If Pegheds starts using it I want a cut! Or at least free Pegheds for all my ukes!
Just for the record - I've got simple wood (or plastic) peg tuners on four of my ukes, and a fifth in the works. I've never had any trouble with any of them. They work well, are very light, hold a tune and you never have to run off looking for a screwdriver to tighten anything!
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Posted By:
pukulele pete
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Date: 2/4/2010 1:34:04 PM |
| Hey...I like that. "Gears without Ears" They should use that .
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Posted By:
Christie
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Date: 2/4/2010 10:59:29 PM |
"Friction tuners that are not lubed and have the screw tight work just fine."
Not mine! There is a reason I tried to "improve" things. Believe me, I tried it the way you suggest first. They're a tad better but so difficult compared to my other ukes that I wondered if it is just the increased tension because it is a longer scale instrument than the others. That's why I asked the question. And I am hearing that some folks have concerts and tenors with friction tuners that work fine. So back to the drawing board.
Thanks for the input, folks.
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Posted By:
ChefJeff
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Date: 2/5/2010 8:44:53 AM |
Yes, good friction tuners properly adjusted can tune smoothly and accurately. However, and I'll get flamed for this, IMO it is always harder to tune precisely with friction than with geared tuners. Pegheds are a great solution but not the only one. If you don't mind the "ears" look there are some very nice open-geared tuners that are very light and they are easier to install yourself than Pegheds, which require a special tapered reamer.
That said, I love Pegheds. Their 4:1 ratio provides ample precision while still allowing quick string changes. Pegheds are light and players who don't like "ears" like them. But they are pricey and getting them installed can be an issue. From what you said I'm guessing that having it done by a friendly local luthier isn't an option for you but did you know that John Charles Herin will do it for free if you ship your ukulele to him in Columbia, SC?
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Posted By:
SamUke
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Date: 2/5/2010 10:09:38 AM |
| I don't understand, are you suppose to lube friction tuners? Also the screw is meant to be tight if it's loose then there is no friction.
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Posted By:
Jim Lenn
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Date: 2/5/2010 12:16:34 PM |
I have Pegheds on my Fluke concert and I love them.. I had upgraded to the Grover 4B but being a converted guitar player, I just couldn't get the one-to-one thing going !!
If you lubed the tuners as you say,, that does sound a bit problamatic and is it possible they got re-assembled incorrectly. As I recall there are metal and nylon bushing rings on both the inner and outer part of the tuner.. Perhaps a good cleaning (to get the lube off) and a check on the "what goes where" might fix it.. One of mine "exploded" when I originally took it apart so I had to look carefully at another one to see how it was all put together.....
Good luck !!!
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Posted By:
Hipster44
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Date: 2/5/2010 12:50:42 PM |
| I've thought about "geared versus friction" tuners a lot and I've never said anything because I feel as tho I'm a novice even tho I've been "playing" a uke for a few years now. I have a few better ukes, but I almost always play my flea or fluke because I don't have to be careful of the finishes on them and after all this time they feel very comfortable to me and love their sound. They rarely need tuning, but when some tweaking is needed the screws aren't so tight that small adjustments can't be made. Sure, Pegheds would be great, but to me it just seems like an unneeded expense. I'm sure if I ever have a custom uke made or opt for much higher end uke I'll go with the premium tuners.
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Posted By:
Christie
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Date: 2/5/2010 4:12:43 PM |
| Hi, my problem is that there is too much friction. I can barely adjust the two leftmost tuners with my left hand. The rightmost tuners I have to adjust with my right hand--not enough strength and control otherwise. Then the adjustments are jerky. A small tweak can change things two steps. As for my attempted remedies, I did not disassemble the tuners. Nor did I grab my grease gun and have at 'em. I dribbled the barest hint of machine oil onto the tuner and rotated it to work the oil in (then wiped off excess) when the string was off. It was probably ineffective. I was reluctant to disassemble anything. Tightening the screws makes things more difficult--not less.
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Posted By:
ChefJeff
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Date: 2/5/2010 4:13:35 PM |
I'm not an expert on friction tuners by any means but I think the general rules are, "no lube required" and "tighten the screw just enough so they hold tune." Too tight and they not only get hard to turn but also tend to "jump" to either side of the correct spot, too loose and they slip.
Despite my preference for geared tuners, Pegheds in particular, I can't understand why you're having trouble with Grover 4Bs, which are considered one of the better friction tuners. The only ones I've ever had real trouble with were those awful Schaller (or Schaller-style?) tuners KoAloha installed on their instruments until they finally used up their stock and switched. Even after doing the cotton thing, etc. I could never get them to stay put without making them too tight to turn smoothly. Most player do fine even with economy tuners such as Pings or Grover 2Bs. You didn't say which brand ukulele your 4Bs are on but have you contacted the ukulele dealer/manufacturer and/or Grover?
Lastly, and this is a long shot that I'm sure doesn't apply to you, we occasionally hear from someone trying to use metal strings or who changed all four strings at once then tried to tune his/her ukulele one octave too high.
Good luck.
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Posted By:
Christie
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Date: 2/5/2010 9:05:11 PM |
CheffJeff, I'm using Worth Clear Mediums and I change one string at a time. I am in correct octave.
The Ukulele is a Kapono, made in NZ. I am in Fiji now--so no place to have this looked at.
But you just gave me an idea. I had that same luthier replace the tuners on my childhood uke and they are the same Grover 4Bs. It's a soprano uke but those tuners work smooth as. (As they say in Kiwi-land). So maybe I will try to swap them.
Anyone know if that is possible (by a mere mortal) or are they glued in somehow?
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Posted By:
TRS uke
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Date: 2/5/2010 11:29:51 PM |
| It would be odd for tuners to be glued in. The bushing is normally a press fit and the the rest is held together by the screw. It should be a simple case of disassembly then reassembly. You can do it. Just be careful not to lose any of the nylon or brass washers and put them all back in the right places.
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Posted By:
ChefJeff
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Date: 2/6/2010 8:37:14 AM |
Wow, when you said "logistical nightmare" you really meant it. :-)
As TRS says, sure you can swap them. The only hard part can be getting the bushings out without chipping the headstock but you don't have to remove them. Simply loosen the screw, take one apart and swap the parts with one from your other ukulele. You won't forget how the parts go back but just in case, here's a photo: http://tinyurl.com/yjtsapp Be sure to compare the parts you find on the "problem" uke's tuners with this photo. What you describe could be due to one or both of the nylon washers being missing.
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Posted By:
Christie
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Date: 2/6/2010 4:35:59 PM |
Thanks for that ChefJeff! I've got to screw up my courage. However, fortunately, it is time for string change anyway.
Regarding logistical nightmare--yes, "paradise" does have some disadvantages.
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Posted By:
Nipper
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Date: 2/10/2010 6:43:16 PM |
I have friction tuners on all my ukes, gears give the wrong balance and are easily knocked out of tune. As has already been said gears with ears look awful, really awful, so wrong, nasty...
As to bigger ukuleles, I have friction tuners on my three baritone ukuleles and have no problem keeping them accurately in tune at gigs and on recordings. Friction tuners are easier than gears to tune, once you have the knack.
Best
Nipper
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