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Original Post By:
Treetop
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Date: 9/12/2007 12:53:28 AM |
Anyone tried to build a fretboard with Delrin frets? I found a couple glues that are supposed to work but I was wondering if anyone had real experience with them. I emailed Boaz Elkayan, who is building with them, but haven't gotten a response. Maybe it is a trade secret?
Thanks, Treetop |
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Posted By:
koalohapaul
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Date: 9/12/2007 3:17:15 AM |
You don't know unless you try, but I would guess that Delrin wouldn't make a very good material for the frets themselves. I've helped a friend build several spear guns with Delrin parts, for the trigger, and it doesn't seem hard enough to be fret material. Even nickel/silver frets wear over time, so Delrin is likely to last much less.
BUT, the fleas and flukes come with plastic fret boards, which aren't as hard or abrasion resistant as Delrin.
It would be more of a cool factor than function, but like I said, you don't know unless you try. Might turn out great.
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Posted By:
Treetop
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Date: 9/12/2007 3:34:32 AM |
Yes, I thought of it experimentally, as if it were my idea, then ran across a guitar made with Delrin frets, which is par for the course whenever I think I have a new idea.
Seems it comes out of the Kasha program.
Thanks for the input and encouragement Paul.
Here is Boaz page on the guitar he makes with Delrin frets:
http://www.boazguitars.com/clarita.htm
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Posted By:
Bruce E
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Date: 9/12/2007 7:53:48 AM |
| I have never heard of Delrin frets, but obviously they exist. I have, however, heard of somebody experimenting with ceramic frets. Anybody have any info on that?
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Posted By:
Rick Turner
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Date: 9/12/2007 8:13:23 AM |
I work with a guy from England who developed the ceramic frets. I've put them in two instruments, and they're great. The issue right now is cost. We really need to get a major manufacturer interested so the quantities can justify the tooling costs.
I'll have one of the prototypes at the NAMM show in January if any of you are coming and want to see.
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Posted By:
Treetop
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Date: 9/12/2007 9:41:25 AM |
How are the ceramic frets installed, as in what holds them in?
I was reading how the old square steel frets actually make the neck stiffer, I think it was Frank Ford who was restoring one and has a tutorial on it on frets.com.
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Posted By:
Worboys
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Date: 9/12/2007 10:37:28 AM
(Updated: 9/12/2007 10:42:39 AM)
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I don't know if Boaz is building with the delrin frets anymore. Most of the guitars he used them on are about 5 years old. My uke didn't come with them. As for emailing him he can take a few weeks to respond. He travels and isn't the most computer literate. Here are two links to his guitars with them though.
http://www.fineguitarconsultants.com/333a.htm
http://www.fineguitarconsultants.com/279a.htm
What about stainless steel? Have you heard about those? They are really smooth and bright but can't be leveled.
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Posted By:
RedHotBlue
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Date: 9/12/2007 1:29:11 PM
(Updated: 9/12/2007 1:30:21 PM)
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| I recall a later model of the Gittler guitar, which had fishing line for the frets! The first available Gittlers looked more like a fish skeleton, with massive steel frets attached to a steel "spine". Talk about minimalist! I wonder if Rigk at Risa was influenced by this design for his Uke Solids? Try a Google search on Gittler for some fun.
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Posted By:
lecky
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Date: 9/12/2007 2:02:38 PM |
| You could install ceramic frets with colour contrasting grout. But seriously is there any advantage to ceramic frets beyond novelty?
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Posted By:
Bruce E
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Date: 9/12/2007 2:16:56 PM
(Updated: 9/12/2007 2:18:31 PM)
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| Ceramic is one of the hardest substances on earth. The heat shields on the space shuttle are made of ceramic material. Ceramic frets would never get worn out by wound strings and they will never burn up on reentry into the earth's atmosphere. Novelty has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Posted By:
lecky
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Date: 9/12/2007 2:58:28 PM |
| Set against that, if problems emerge over the years they'd be much more difficult to put right I imagine. I like the idea though.
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Posted By:
Diesel
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Date: 9/12/2007 4:32:45 PM |
| The fact that they'd never burn up on reentry into the Earth's atmosphere is nice but unless you play that high up the fretboard I don't see the advantage.
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Posted By:
cfiimei
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Date: 9/12/2007 6:36:40 PM |
| I have seen small mariachi (Mexican) instruments that closely resemble ukuleles - if I remember correctly they had four strings, curved backs, and the frets were pieces of gut or nylon tied around the neck and anchored with adhesive or finish. They only had a few frets clustered near the head. I played one and found the action excellent. The frets were in great shape, and I was told the instrument had been played regularly for 50 years.
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Posted By:
Bruce E
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Date: 9/12/2007 7:10:21 PM |
| That's a vihuela. They are a traditional mariachi instrument.
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Posted By:
John Kavanagh
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Date: 9/12/2007 7:53:53 PM |
I play lute and viola da gamba, which use tied gut or nylon frets. (I'd guess that vihuela had had the frets replaced more than once in 50 years.)
The big advantages is they're moveable, and they aren't tougher than the strings. As with so many things, those are also the disadvantages.
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Posted By:
Treetop
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Date: 9/12/2007 10:33:30 PM |
Thanks Worboys, maybe I will still get a response from Boaz. The stainless sounds good but working them would be a chore.
Ceramic, space shuttle, new meaning for Re-entrant tuning?
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Posted By:
koalohapaul
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Date: 9/14/2007 1:40:08 AM |
My father built two ukulele with stainless steel frets. Instead of actual fret wire, he used 1/8" diameter rods, which he embedded in the ebony fret boards. They are sustain monsters and play like a dream. Unfortunately, neither of them are in our possession. One belongs to Roy Sakuma, the other to a famous ukulele player, who will remain unnamed.
I was thinking about replicating them, but the difficulty of duplicating what he did kind of puts me off.
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Posted By:
metronome.maiden
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Date: 9/14/2007 12:22:38 PM
(Updated: 9/14/2007 12:34:52 PM)
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Not exactly info on delrin frets, but a story I thought you might be interested in hearing.
I have a friend with whom I play classical guitar. His guitar had a bad intonation problem very obvious on one string in particular....I'm not sure why it was more evident on one string.
We made a pseudo fret out of delrin and placed it on the "downhill" side of the nut for only the one string. It was held in by the pressure of the string. It markedly improved the intonation and a year later is still functioning well. We had to guess at the width of the pseudo fret but it was a cheap fix.
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